I am suggesting that you can’t believe because you have created in your mind a lesser god, a non-god. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. Since the Gospel message is based on the death, burial, and Resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1–4), many have wondered how people who lived prior to the Incarnation of Christ could have been saved. Where were Moses and Elijah if not in heaven? The god you imagine is very limited in his power, incapable of miracles and different in no way from man. My first question: If I as a true believer of Christ die today, when will I be in Heaven? He gave His life for me, and I trust Him without reservation, and I reject all my thoughts and ideas and attitudes to accept all that He says and all that He is for me. However, if they did receive glorified bodies, this would be a foretaste of what will happen at Christ’s return. But Jesus is not only full God, thus omnipresent, Jesus is also full human. If only that were the case. Abraham’s Bosom was a place of comfort for those who died in faith. For Jesus IS God. Where had everyone who died gone before Jesus died and rose? The Gates were opened by the death and resurrection of Jesus. However, the believer’s judgment will serve the purpose of reward and testimony to God’s grace. It doesn’t suggest that they sleep to awake at the resurrection. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). A reader recently sent in this question: In John 3:13, Jesus says, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man,”. This phrase refers to believers dying. Christians are convinced that we are sinful –that we do, say, and think wrong things, and that God is right to judge us for that. He is God and we are not. Hi, Andrew. I like the way MacArthur answers this question. So again, there is nothing that was made that didn’t involve Jesus/The Word being there. The criminal who was converted on the cross next to our Lord was told that after he died he would be with Christ in Paradise (Luke 23:43). And even than, if we did come from monkeys, we won’t even know it at that point because we will not be able to think about it. Only new testament people or new testament people who are still alive when Jesus comes for the second time? For them, it was future. Many people aswered that belief in Jeasus was the criteria for entry into heaven. Sorry if I’m random. Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross is sufficient across all time barriers. I still have some doubts. The same promise repeated throughout the Old Testament—that God will be our God and we will be his people—is also repeated in the New Testament. After all, the Bible acknowledges the salvation of devout Old Testament believers even though they lived and died long before Jesus walked on earth. But the God of the Bible is all powerful, all knowing, self-existent, without any limitations. Who were they? Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13. ( Log Out /  Back to the question. But knowing the God of the Bible, it should not be troubling to us. sickness, pain), and that the Tree of Life is there. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Luke 23:43  & Philippians 1:23 tell us that when a believer dies today, they are taken to the direct presence of God, AKA “paradise”. Therefore, it is impossible to discuss what happened "when" there was no universe as time did not exist as we understand it. The Bible is there for everyone to read. No one had ascended to heaven prior to Jesus. Many more would follow him. So in that respect, Christ’s redeeming work on the cross transcends time. The pre-existence of Christ asserts the existence of Christ before his incarnation as Jesus.One of the relevant Bible passages is John 1:1–18 where, in the Trinitarian interpretation, Christ is identified with a pre-existent divine hypostasis (substantive reality) called the Logos or Word. Thus, after the final judgment, there will be a new heavens and a new Earth, which will be not only the restoration of Eden, but the fulfillment of what Eden would have been had sin not entered in. Laurie has preached on the subjects of Heaven and Hell on a number of occasions, and in April said that people make up their own decision on where they will end up. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. I have just been battling with beliefs. Did he not think bad thoughts as a child? Is this saying that people didn’t go to Heaven before Jesus’ death and resurrection? Paul speaks about dying to be with Christ (Philippians 1:23). It was to demonstrate the reality of it. If people have free will to believe or not believe in jesus as their savior at our current time then why wouldn’t people of the Old Testament have the same? Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. Then went to heaven? that’s not the way it should look to me Mary Did You Know? Forty days after Jesus’ resurrection, “he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. They believed God’s word as much as was revealed to them, and knew their own sinfulness. And 2 Peter 3:10 says, But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. This is because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. It seems that in the time between Jesus’ death and resurrection, Jesus descended into Sheol and released those from Abraham’s Bosom and led them to Heaven. (John 14:6-9) Jesus said to him, “I am l the way, and the truth, and the life. SDG. Whereas Eden was a garden, the New Jerusalem will be a garden city. Its like a barbed wire fence I just can’t get over. Ps. He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.). Trust God, believe in Jesus – They will do the rest. He died for the sins of the world. We do not know the answer to these questions. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. No. Did People Go to Heaven Before Jesus’ Death & Resurrection? It was not to earn salvation. This heresy comes from a misunderstanding of a common phrase in the New Testament that speaks about believers falling asleep (eg 1 Thessalonians 4:13). – Longmont Pastor, Blog Two: A Blakean Consciousness of the World – Nicola's Blog, All of Christianity is Eschatological – Longmont Pastor, What Has Happened to Me Has Really Served to Advance the Gospel, Reader Questions: End Times and Bible Translation. 2 Kings 2:11, "Then it came about as they were going along and talking, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. There’s no mistake in Jesus’s mind that heaven is a real, physical place. then when Jesus came the ones who believed him their savior became Christians and those who … Everyone has faith. If people really do trust in God, they will trust in Jesus. That is, the faithful in the Old Testament – those who trusted in God and his promises – were freed from Sheol by Jesus’ death and resurrection and are now in heaven with Jesus. The following is the closest I am able to find in trying to answer your question from a Catholic perspective. If someone says that they trust in God, but refuse to trust in Jesus, then they don’t trust in God. Read this. Interesting theory. I personally believe that when the bible references predestination, this is that. (Please use the Mountain Highway entrance), How Did People go to Heaven Before Jesus’ Death and Resurrection? It is possible to view this as an event that records a kind of resurrection like that of Lazarus (John 11:38-44). And, at any given point in the unfolding revelation of the Word of God, salvation came through faith, believing God. We hold that Jesus was and is who he claims to be, the Son of God incarnate, very God and very man. From birth? brought from death into life. So, I would venture to say that it is not the place for demons and Satan, but they will be cast into the Lake of Fire in the end. In reply to your second question(s), all mankind will stand before the Lord in judgment (2 Timothy 4:1). If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!”. The Fathers of the Church believed that God took Enoch and Elijah from earth to the Garden of Eden as mortal men (men who still suffered from the stain of original sin on their souls). Hades, as part of Sheol, is the dwelling place of dead human souls. In Christianity, heaven is traditionally the location of the throne of God and the angels of God, and in most forms of Christianity it is the abode of the righteous dead in the afterlife.In some Christian denominations it is understood as a temporary stage before the resurrection of the dead and the saints' return to the New Earth.. What did he believe? Psalm 139:7-8, for example, says: “Where shall I go from your Spirit? Jesus lived in a territory, Palestine, with a long-standing history of power struggle (see map of 1st century Palestine) Is not the above passage the case of getting glorified bodies? Before Jesus came, some people did trust in God, and were saved on that basis. Roger, there are some questions about God’s sovereignty we cannot answer. Man sees things through the lens of history; God transcends time. So they likely didn’t receive glorified bodies (like Lazarus) and lived and later on died. Or they went to heaven based on the future? I am confident that God will deal with these situations in complete harmony with his nature and revealed truth. Augustine is credited with this saying, “The new is in the Old concealed; the old is in the New revealed.”. When one acknowledges that due to his sinful nature, he is spiritually dead, accepting that there is no good in himself that deserves God’s favour, and accepts by faith God’s provision of grace, he is redeemed, made new, born again, ie. Jesus had to be first. Furthermore, if Satan himself is currently able to go to and from hades? It’s hard for me to pick up the bible and read it when I don’t believe the miracles that Jesus did, or that a snake spoke, or even the imacculate conception. Hades, on the other hand, was a place of torment for those who died apart from awareness of their shortcomings and apart from faith and trust in God’s mercy and grace. Is there room to view this second death from Hades to the Lake of Fire as one of annihilation? So no one can say that they are in the situation now of being before Jesus. It was counted him for righteousness. Those who die now in faith in Jesus go to Heaven, i.e. The Bible reveals that no human beings have yet ascended into heaven (John 3:13 John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. The folks who died before Christ were sort of “on pause” until he died on the cross? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If you don’t believe the miracles of Jesus, then you clearly can’t believe that He died, was buried and rose again either. Recently I’ve also been thinking about whether or not there are demons in hades (or are able to at least go in and out of hades), or if they are currently only roaming the earth. Because God loves us, he has provided through Christ’s death, burial and resurrection a way of escape from the penalty of our sin. So God has been gracious to us in that He revealed His redemption plan progressively from creation to the cross. Jesus made the way so simple and so easy for us: “I am the way, the truth and the life, no-one comes to the Father, but by me”. And, every time they sacrificed a lamb, and every time they sacrificed a ram, and every time they sacrificed a turtle dove or a pigeon, every time they sacrificed any animal, it was the picture of Christ, the picture of Christ, the picture of Christ. Jesus said in Matthew 24:35 that Heaven and Earth will pass away, but his words never will. This is, I believe, what Revelation refers to as the first resurrection (Revelation 20:5). Your second question concerning judgment is very important. 20:11-15). In what is recognised as the longest sermon in…, We meet every Sunday morning & evening to worship God. There is nowhere Jesus is not. In John 3:13, Jesus says, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man,”. Thanks for your comments. was crucified, died, and was buried; That’s it! And what is the purpose of final judgement, if believers go to heaven instantly after they die and start enjoying Heaven and nonbelievers go to hell and start suffering? Thanks Pastor Nick for covering and clarifying this! In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side. As to what the Chosen People actually believe today may be something totally different. They didn’t know who Christ was. When you guys were talking about if people were saved prior to Jesus coming to earth. For Jesus IS God. (Matthew 27:50-53) And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. Change ). Were they able to (do so) through obeying the Old Testament laws? Hence Christ’s bold statement in John 14:6 “no one comes to the Father except through me”. Our Sunday morning service consists of singing hymns and songs of praise, Scripture readings, prayers, children’s…. Is this saying that God is present in Hell? Also. There are over two billion Christians in the world, the vast majority of whom believe in heaven and hell. I thought it would be good to revisit these questions. Faith is the key; the common denominator. Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. In the light of this claim of Christ, how did people prior to Jesus redeeming work on the cross get to heaven; were they saved some other way? Hades, on the other hand, remains in tact, and those who die apart from faith still go there. There he waited for Jesus to open the Gates of Heaven along with the rest of the OT saints. What about folks who lived on the other side of the world, and never were exposed to the Bible or Christ. No, humans were not in Heaven before the Ascension. I’d be curious if the Word has anything to say on the subject. "Those who died before Jesus never had the opportunity to trust in him because His crucifixion hadn't happened yet, but they were saved by faith the same as we are," he added. (Revelation 21:1). It would seem (I’ll give Scriptural justification for this below) that Sheol was divided into two sections: Abraham’s Bosom and Hades. 14:10-12; 1 Cor. That is why it says in Hebrews 12, that Moses could foresee Christ, even Moses. Now when it comes to those who have not been exposed to the Gospel, we are asking a question that is very troubling to many people. He is right to judge us. Yes NONE of us will know ANY of these answers until we die. No one comes to the Father except through me. 2 Peter 3:7 says, But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. Concerning glorified bodies, all believers of all time will receive a sinless body without corruption (Ezekiel 37:12-14; Daniel 12:1-2; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) at the return of Christ. Also, Revelation 20:10 says: “and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” I could not believe in that kind of god either; what would be the point? Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? But passages such as Philippians 2:6–8 make clear the full deity and full humanity of Jesus Christ. Revelation 20:11-15 describes how, after the judgement of the living and the dead at the end of all things, Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Jesus is in heaven. If you believe there is a god, why not believe in the God the Bible presents us rather than a weak god of your own creation? Just have a couple comments/Questions. And you don’t need to know everything to have faith in Jesus. Even the brightest minds in the first few centuries of the church struggled to explain this reality! Does it seem probable that only a few people are in heaven now….Elijah, Enoch, and Moses, ? In believing something that we will never understand? Thank you again and have a blessed day! The time now comes for Jesus to go back to heaven. Here’s what comes to mind: Job 1:6-7 says this: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. How many of them were there? No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. Let me answer each of those questions in order: The Old Testament talks a lot about “Sheol” which is the dwelling place of the dead. The real question is, have we accepted through faith this free gift of salvation? Was There No heaven Before Jesus.? So, they had to know that there was coming one who would pay the penalty for their sins, one ultimate sacrifice. I don’t think faith is very hard. (Revelation 20:13-15), Heaven, as it is now experienced, is different than what will be after the final judgment, where Revelation 21 tells us that there will be a new heavens and a new Earth, for the first heaven and the first Earth will have passed away, and will be no more. He believed as much as God had revealed. Trying to understand how Jesus Christ can be both fully God and fully man at the same time stretches the limits of our finite minds. Hi Deben. Your email address will not be published. If salvation is only attained through faith in Jesus Christ, how were people in the Old Testament saved, ie before Jesus’ death and resurrection? They were sinful, and God would have to provide a sacrifice for them. This was not the first resurrection spoken of in Scripture and nor was it the resurrection of all OT saints. Very honest ones too! My second question: Who all will stand in the final Judgement? Trust in the God of the Bible. Yes Genesis 5:24, "And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him." Luke 16:19-31 gives us insight to this through the story of the rich man and Lazarus: Lazarus, a poor man who died in faith, is taken to Abraham’s bosom, whereas the rich man who died apart from faith is taken to Hades. '” The rich man desperately wants someone to go and speak to his family members, and plead with them lest they end up in Hades as well, but the man is told that his family members have been given Moses and the Prophets (i.e. For those readers who might share similar questions to Andrew’s, click on the tab at the top of this page, “What is the Gospel?”). Thank you for answering my questions. The Bible is there for everyone to read. So heaven at times is inhabited by sinning creatures. Isaiah lived approximately 700 years before Jesus’ birth and very clearly did not think of Jesus in any other way than a child who would be born in a miraculous way some time in the future. We all trust in different things. John Calvin even wrote a treatise against it. I didn’t know god referred to himself as god. Hades, like Abraham’s Bosom, was/is a holding place or waiting room for the souls of those who have died apart from faith, and though those in Hades suffer torment presently, one day Hades will be emptied into the Lake of Fire, meaning that Hades is not the final destination for those who have died apart from faith. Now, he didn’t understand all there was to know about Jesus Christ, but he understood enough to know that he was a sinner and needed a savior and God would provide a savior. (Col 1:16 KJV) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (speaking of Jesus Christ) Is this saying that people didn’t go to Heaven before Jesus’ death and resurrection? It was His death, His sacrifice. Going back to Jesus’ apostles, who spoke with him after his resurrection, there seems to have been an understanding that Jesus descended into Sheol, and did two things: The latter of these was not evangelism, but a pronouncement of judgment upon those spirits in Hades. For us, it is past, but it was still through Christ. What was the concept of heaven people had before the death of Jesus? If something is THAT true than it should be easy to understand. Now anyone can trust in Jesus and be saved. The important thing, then, is what you put your trust in. Stephen: Another Messenger Rejected | Acts 7:1-53. Is not this judgement already done? Why did they appear to people (which indicates that they would have been known to certain people)? earlier question asked will jew christian and Muslim all meet in heaven coz they believe in the same god. Keep studying the Word, and feel free to send more questions to me by filling out this form. But you can know enough to trust in him. He gave Jesus to die on the cross to take our punishment, our judgement, on himself in our place. As for God’s name, he did indeed say his name is “I am” in Exodus 3. Many Bible scholars believe Jesus appeared on earth centuries before his Bethlehem birth, not as a man, but as the Angel of the Lord.The Old Testament includes more than 50 references to the Angel of the Lord. Nineteen times Jesus made reference to God the Father dwelling in Heaven: Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Better yet, If God is giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and giving them all the thought of Jesus as their savior, that would represent a robotic system. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Does the bible ever speak of Jesus as a child? a) this life is not all there is, They were saved by faith in Christ. It’s saying He is present in Sheol. The Impact on Kids of Dad's Faith and Church Attendance, What Has Happened to Me Has Really Served to Advance the Gospel. The price for this redemption was paid by Jesus’ death in man’s place. Did Jesus always know he was the son of god? The truth will not go away, and in our consciences we know that-. 27:50-53 you asked if this is a “case of getting glorified bodies”. He had no knowledge or belief in a Jesus existing in heaven in his own day. Or where shall I flee from your presence? (7) If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. But before he leaves his disciples he … Thanks for these great questions! You die and your soul goes either to everlasting bliss or torment (or purgatory en route). so i asked a question a little while ago that was do Jews believe in Heaven and the answer i mostly got was no. At the end of the age, when Old Testament and New Testament believers alike stand before their Redeemer, we are told that “He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.” (Revelation 21:3). Pre or post crucifixion, it doesn’t matter – Christ paid the price. That is, when Christians die, they go to be with the Lord. c) that there is a Day coming when God will judge the world in righteousness and set all the terrible wickedness we mourn over, right at last. But only after Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven himself would these people rise and take their spots. However their death to those who are still alive can be described as “sleep”, because we will see them again. All humans who have died (even those who have had God's Spirit dwelling within them) are waiting in their graves for the return of Jesus Christ to … So believers go immediately to Heaven when they die – occurring before the Second Coming and judgment (see also 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). The Apostles Creed, one of the oldest Christian creeds, includes this phrase: He suffered under Pontius Pilate, Than, that we need to fill the void with faith? (re-posted), After being falsely accused of speaking against the temple and the law of Moses Stephen is given the opportunity to defend himself. And when believers get to heaven, the answers to these questions will be known. I think Christianity is simple enough for a young child to believe and be saved. :shrug: Jon. Required fields are marked *, 5 Burwood Hwy, Wantirna VIC 3152 ( Log Out /  He is everywhere. For 40 days Jesus has been showing himself to his disciples. So, I believe, the OT people were saved by faith in God. Was he not man? Christ, alone, can save. And, God had revealed even by that time that he was sinner and that the only savior was God, and that God would pay the penalty for his sin. he descended to hell. Like a nightclub, but different. God’s judgment and blessing can occur in many ways in life. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. In Hebrews 11, sometimes known as the “gallery of faith” or the “faith hall of fame,” we have a sampling of Old Testament saints whose lives pleased God. However, Satan is still under the rule of God and is called back to heaven now and then, as we see in Job 1 and 2. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. Both have faith. However, Scripture teaches that there will be a formal judgment. Before Jesus came, some people did trust in God, and were saved on that basis. They would die in the flesh, but be made alive in spirit form. (Ephesians 4:8), Preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19-20). The Lord said to Satan, ‘From where have you come?’ Satan answered the Lord and said, ‘From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it. It seems his story starts at age 30. Thank u for that. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. Only the Father and Son were not made. Did this change after his death and resurrection? Your email address will not be published. Jesus died for everyone before and since so we could all go to Heaven and be pure enough to be with our God. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”. Is the Book of Esther Fictional? Now, the means for salvation has always been the same: Faith. This claim eliminates all other 'religious' pathways to God. Jesus atoned for those before, during, and after Him, providing the cleansing needed to be with God. 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And future sins of the OT people were saved prior to the lake fire... Service consists of singing hymns and songs of praise, Scripture teaches that there will be a foretaste what! And hell s name, he gave Jesus to open the Gates of at... In don ’ t believe these things happened than how can you say was there heaven before jesus ‘ Show us the except! Scripture was there heaven before jesus, prayers, children ’ s… the future never will ’ good. Them, and the truth will not go away, but be made alive spirit... Jesus in heaven and be pure enough to be Released at the resurrection of mens. Posts by email were raised to life in the first few centuries of the universe, space and did...